I heard once that some church found the bread and wine they served had turned into actual flesh (its just what someone and wikipedia told me). Obviously they could (and probably are) wrong, but do you know of any other cases?
In a previous question, numerous Christians noted that the 150 gallons of wine Jesus made at Cana was not fermented. Please address the following points below.
1. Every translations calls it wine, not juice. It the word meant grape juice, the translators would have used that word. None do.
2. People get drunk off wine in many places in the bible. The very first thing Noah does after leaving the ark is plant a vineyard, make wine, get drunk and pass out naked. (Genesis (:20-21). Lot gets so drunk on wine that both his daughters end up raping him over the course of two nights. (Lot 19:30-36)
There are many references to drunk people in the bible from wine (not grape juice).
So what is you case that the 150 gallons of wine Jesus made for this party was non-alcoholic, besides the fact it makes you uncomfortable?
Mim:
Yes, the did have a different word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_bible
Sahih Muslim: "Drinks, Drinking wine and fermentation"
Narrated by Gaber bin Abdullah:
We were with the messenger of Allah, PBUH and he asked for a drink. One of his men said: "Oh Messenger of Allah, Can we offer you wine to drink?" He said Yes. He (Gaber) went out looking for the drink and came back with a cup of wine. The messenger (Peace Be Upon him) asked, “Have you covered it with a twig in a transverse manner” He (Gaber) said, “Yes” and he (Muhammad) drank.
Sahih Muslim - Hadith #3753
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=1&Rec=4824
Narrated by Abdullah bin Masoud (May God be pleased with him):
He was with the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him on the night of the jinn when he asked him if he had water. He answered that he had wine in a pot. Mohammed said: Pour me some to do ablution and he did. [The] Prophet peace be upon him [said]: "O Abdullah bin Masood it is a drink and a purifier."
Musnad Ahmad - Hadith #3594
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?hnum=3594&doc=6
@Rouge
Well, let’s see who’s the liar
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 26, Number 3707
Narrated Abu Hurayrah:
I knew that the Apostle of Allah used to keep fast. I waited for the day when he did not fast to present him the drink (nabidh) which I made in a pumpkin. I then brought it to him while it fermented. He said: Throw it to this wall, for this is a drink of the one who does not believe in Allah and the Last Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabidh
@Rouge,
Oh I’m almost forgetting this post. Well, I’ve to reply to you. First, nabidh can be translated as wine. Take a look
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhadith.al-islam.com%2FDisplay%2FDisplay.asp%3FDoc%3D1%26Rec%3D4824
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhadith.al-islam.com%2FDisplay%2FDisplay.asp%3Fhnum%3D3594%26doc%3D6
Secondly, Nabidh can be alcoholic as beer. There’s no proof of the Nabidh in these 2 particular events were alcohol free.
I’ll choose you as BA but if you like to go on the debate, don’t hesitate to PM me.
Otherwise, consumers coming to the style for the first time will be mislead into believing this is the way it was always intended to taste.
Currently there are no restrictions, for example, on producers of Brunello or Amarone from altering the traditional style with the generic, modern "international" style of winemaking.
What suggestions would you give to regulators for distinguishing between a traditional and a generic "international" style of wine on the label?
For example, say the combination of grape X from region Y traditionally equals style Z that has less alcohol, tannin, or fruit forwardness, and the modern generic style takes it in the completely opposite direction, with no indication on the label of the divergence from the original model. This is at least misleading as to what is meant by style Z, especially for a newbie having it for the first time.
Here are some links:
http://www.thewinenews.com/octnov00/cover.html
http://www.castellobanfi.com/features/wnew17.html (last paragraph)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunello_di_Montalcino (last paragraphs)
Even a regulated area still allows significant variation in style from traditional to "international" within that appellation. And as the the first article notes, rules in Brunello have changed numerous times in the last 2 decades (and are relatively young in the history of Brunello to begin with).
I’m advocating a distinction between an international and traditional style on already regulated labeled wines.
Perhaps even a voluntary distinction on the label between a food wine and a social wine (high alc, low acid, over-oaked international style fruit bomb) would be nice.
another link:
http://www.winemag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=A3017EE5269F4DDAB7210B3F969DA475